Posted by Jon Zeaman on November 07, 19101 at 14:06:07:
In Reply to: Re: Rosinco Decision posted by Ron Bloomfield on November 07, 19101 at 09:37:07:
Ron,
Your right on one account, I don't expect that divers will leave things alone. Maybe I feel this way because members of your own board have "artifacts" tucked away in their basement as well.
I seem to recall at least one "museum" being set up to display all of the artifacts that it's curator had relocated from the bottom of the lake. I imagine that the museum you run has artifacts in it that were donated by fellow divers. Isn't that how Paul got into trouble in the first place? He "donated" an artifact to a museum and got busted.
With very few exceptions I think that you would find most of your "known" wrecks and most, if not all, of your displayed artifacts came from divers-and not some expedition mounted by the museum.
Whenever I actually see the state investigate something it is usually some stripped out, beat up hull in 10' of water. All of the cool stuff was found by private individuals. The more impresive maps, photo, and video documentation was also done by private individuals. When the state actually finds something mildly interesting, like the wreck in Mendota, they won't even let someone on it to take photos.
The wrecks that you now seek to protect were stripped 30 years ago- yes, even the ones in Michigan. Some of them were stripped by people in your circle of historical society friends. I find the hypocracy to be incredible! I trust you to protect the wrecks as much as I trust the goverment to spend my tax dollars wisely.
There are a group of commited individuals out there who search for new wrecks using nothing but their personal funds to do so. The fewer road blocks that we put in their way the more wrecks we will have to dive on in the future.
I would like to see your basement. How many things do you have hidden away? What did you do with those items when you became curator? Did you dump them back in the lake, or put them on display to protect yourself from prosecution? One last thing.
My purpose in diving wrecks is to take pictures. I started diving when you could take whatever you wanted. I choose to take pictures. When I look for access to a wreck that is why I do it.
I also am not afraid to sign my name to my postings- How about you Joe Diver?
: :This is in response to the discussion as of 11/7/2001.
: Actually, the "Egotistical Academics" (as Mr. Bob G. put it), do work with the diving community at large (not against it as implied). The Wisconsin Historical Society has every right to be proud of what they have accomplished in terms of Maritime (not just shipwreck) preservation especially for their Maritime Trails program. Preservation has to be balanced by public access, but it can be a very thin line. I think Mr. Bob G. and Mr. Zeaman fail to see the larger picture. This is not just about the dive community or the rights of divers, but about preservation and access of historical resources for the general community at large, both divers and non-divers (who, by the way number significantly more than divers). Wisconsin is not "wasting taxpayers dollars" by pursuing this matter, they are simply fulfilling an obligation they have to preserve and provide access (not necessarily access as divers see it) to our historical resources. It seems to me that Mr. Ehorn is trying to limit access to a site by arguing that it is his property and thus that he can limit those who visit it (and it appears to wipe out its valuable historical record by stripping it). This goes against everything that we in the Public History field have been "charged with" in our jobs: To preserve, protect and provide access to resources for the public interest.
: Mr. G. Please try to see past your apparent dislike of Government to see what they are actually doing for the Public good. Public history and preservation programs benefit not just you, me, Joe Diver or Mr. Gray, but everyone as a whole. There are bound to be some that don't like the way things turn out, but the fact of the matter is that groups like the Wisconsin Historical Society have had major success in this realm that has touched more than just the small dive community (who tend to be a very close-mouthed group).
: I also take offense at the phrase "egotistical academics," by the way. I guess as a museum Curator, historian and researcher, I am considered one of them. We could call those of you who think of this way, the "Uninformed," because I doubt that you have looked at length to see what Museums, Archives, local and State Historical Societies and others in our profession are doing for the public good. Anyway, I am also a diver who got into it for one reason only, to visit Great Lakes shipwrecks, so I understand the line between access and preservation in this realm, as well. However, I think that one way to help "settle" this age-old contention is to educate new divers in the "hands-off" approach to wrecks (take only pictures, leave only bubbles). It is obvious that there are some divers who have way more experience than myself that who are too set in their ways and will continue to take things and champion their right to at every turn. They are for law enforcement and the courts to handle. Mr. Zeaman, do you honestly expect the preservation community to believe that if everyone "promises" not to take anything, that they won't. History has proven that wrong. And Mr. Bob G., the courts have been known to be wrong on occasion. It is possible for someone to win a court case (on a techincality, perhaps) and still be guilty of a wrongful act. You have your side of the "picture" and we in our profession have our "side."
: I applaud the efforts of Jeff Gray and the Wisconsin Historical Society. Good luck Guys!
: Ron Bloomfield
: Michigan
: : The Wisconsin Historical Society is disappointed with the decision of the United States District Court, Eastern District of Wisconsin on 27 September 2001 in favor of Mr. Paul L. Ehorn. On 12 October 2001, the State of Wisconsin filed a motion for the court to reconsider its judgement. On 26 October 2001, the State of Wisconsin filed a notice of appeal in the Federal 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago.
: : The Wisconsin Historical Society remains optimistic that Wisconsin will be able to successfully defend its interest in the Rosinco and will continue to preserve and protect archaeological sites for future generations of divers and non-divers.