Re: Ironsides

Subject:

Comments:
: : Tim, : : The State Capitol Building in Madison, Wisconsin is on public land and is somewhat historic. Do you think you should be allowed to chisel a block out of it and put your feet up on it? : SORRY hard as I try I cant't see the comparison???? Tim : : : : : : : : : Well, getting back to the topic, It certainly makes sense to hear of your opinions regarding Grand River current, warm water, polution, etc. These certainly could have had an impact. I also am aware of just how deep the ice can go -- although it's been a few decades since we had ice that bad and all this damage has occurred within the past 12 years. : : : : : : : : : The wreck has been fragile for some time and we have noticed major changes when we dive right after a major storm. SO it must be surges, current, etc. : : : : : : : : : As someone (above) said...dive it while you can. : : : : : : : : : As for removing artifacts -- I would no more do so than would I steal an exhibit from a land-based museum. I think the bulk of the diving community has progressed from its Neanderthal roots in this regard -- at least I hope we're getting there. : : : : : : : : : Think of all the great shipwrecks that were turned into coffee-tables back in the 1950s and 60s. : : : : : : : : : Craig : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Think of all that shipwreck wood most of which was loose scattered about the wreck site that would now be covered with sand or zebra musssels!!!! As for the old BS about divers dismantling ship wrecks it is another fantasy when mother nature was the real culprit, but for the ignorant, it was easier to blame divers.If any of the finger pointers ever tried to pry loose an attached timber from a wreck they would find out just how exteremley hard and time consuming such an effort is.When it was much easier to pickup the scatterd pieces that will eventually be lost forever and turn them into a work of art be it a coffee table or similar item.I am still waiting to hear where the big supermarket is for shipwreck artifacts and what was sold and to whom for what price etc. Tim : : : : : : : That wreck was dove in the 60's and 70's by a lot of divers who shall we say were not ignorant in the use of lift bags, lift drums, hacksaws, and the extreamly usefull pipe wrench. My diving instructor at Godwin High in the mid sixties clamed to have found a $20.00 gold piece on the deck. The man who found it(Gene Turner)pulled a steamer trunk out of the back section filled with costumes and wigs. A theater company was traveling on board at the time of sinking. : : : : : : : : : : : : Well the way I see it's a good thing that they got what they did back in the sixty's before it was buried forever in the collapsed wreckage, never to be seen again. At least someone sees the items and I am sure they would be glad to show there items to anyone interested. I think I did see some of the recovered items in the Millwaukee public library (marine Room) Tim : : : : : Like a lot of things, I think the truth lies some place between the two extremes. Most of the old divers stopped "taking things" years ago. And while it would be a real crime to see the wheel of the Mary Alice B. disappear, it's hard for me, after years of diving the Ironsides by the brail system, to see the harm done by early "collectors". The irony that zebras are undoing great lakes wreck diving far better than any pipe wrench or stick of dynamite used by the early "Neanderthals" has not been lost on the boys who lived through the transformation to our new enlightened sport. : : : : Three Cheers to someone who is not so far to the right or to the left of this problem to see the truth, I have worked with proffesionals on both sides of this controversey,this type of forum can be extremly effective way of bringing both sides together, because I beleive both sides have a lot to offer, but until both sides can work together and resolve some issues that have so much BS on both sides everyone loses. Some how we all have to find some middle ground. I hope I see the day but I feel its still a long way off, until then I will do my research which is available to anyone who can use it for the good of all. My hat is off to the Greatlakes Research Fundation for providing and mantaining this site for all to express their views and conserns its a worth while effort and the Ghosts Ships Festival is great. : : : : well Iam glad I got that of my chest. Not afraid of showing my name or email, Jon Van Harpen : : : Well lets see, I guess to sum up all the above postings I have come to the conclusion If you take something from a wreck you will be arrested,if you take and donate a item from a wreck you will be arrested and oh yes if you sucessfully donate(without getting arrested) something or things that you have taken from a wreck to a museum they may be stollen and sold.so then I guess the divers should dive with there hands tied and leave the wrecks to the zebras and mother nature to destroy.oooh hell it must make sense to somebody.ie: DNR, bill pushers,goverment,????? But what the hell Im just a red neck diver from the old school who enjoys sitting back with a cold drink resting my feet on my beautiful shipwreck coffee table cheers Tim

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL: