Posted by Dave Trotter on December 21, 1999 at 15:42:17:
From: DTROTTER1@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 01:33:17 EST
To: ivak@vaxxine.com
Cc: gentile@delphi.com, joycehayward@cros.net, MHoward@cambridgeoh.com, bottomtime@sympatico.ca, kmonk@julian.uwo.ca, jjhop@sympatico.ca, gway@canada.com, rjequip@mnsi.ne, broy@mnsi.net, MSpears@mail.ford.com, Flyinbye2@aol.com, Kennyl@mail.tds.net, jmak@i-is.com, Duncan@centuryinter.net, mnalepa@mediaone.com, Diver@tir.com, Kimm.Stabelfeldt@mchugh.com, Shipwrecked@novagate.com, osprey@cecomet.net, Zabone@aolcom, bowsprit@falls.igs.net, marshall@vaxxine.com, seaviewimaging@home.com
Subject: Response
Mr. Glichrist, you should consider what Mr. Kozak said and didn't say, and I
will offer some thoughts along the way.
There are two main parts to the discussion below---one is Mr. Kozak's and
your comments, and # two is the content and manner in which this legislation
was introduced. These comments will be straight forward.
-There isn't a shipwreck hunter or diver alive today in the Great Lakes that
didn't collect "goodies" 20+ years ago. If they deny it, then you may
strongly suspect their integrity is in question. It is the divers and
wreckhunters that have made a decision in the last 15 years or so to protect
the wrecks for our own interest. The legislative part of it means very
little, except to tell people we care. It is the greatest collective
self-policing that I have ever witnessed in a sport.
-The "FREEDOM" Mr. Kozak commented about was not about the freedom to strip
shipwrecks, as you indicated. After rereading Mr. Kozak's comments (again),
I find that the observations pertain to the control mentality exhibited by
others (which we will get to later).
-The California company that "raided" the Atlantic several years ago (as you
put it) is not the reason for this personal member's bill #13 (as you
indicated). For the record, I do not know of a diver that wasn't happy to
see the results of the court case. I hope you have made a dive on it. The
Province won the court case 2+ years ago, so why this legislation is even
remotely relevant to the Atlantic is beyond me. I am sure you are aware that
Mr. Kozak was the original finder of the Atlantic in 1982. He knew what he
had discovered and did not make a dive on it! He could see the bell hanging
on the mast! Does this sound like a fellow wanting to strip every shipwreck
he can find...I would suggest this is hardly the case, and that was 17 years
ago.
-Your words: "What was especially annoying however, was your description of
our Great Lakes heritage as being worthless because it's only 200 years old".
You add comments about one of a kind events such as the Declaration of
Independence, etc., then they must not be worth anything when not old (by
historical standards).
Mr. Gilchrist, I believe you are mixing together two separate issues.
I have found 70+ shipwrecks in the last 20+ years, and only one, the
Steamer Goliath is historically significant. That is less than 2%. Many
shipwrecks are historically interesting, but not historically significant.
Why is the Goliath significant?....it is one of a kind. The dozens of
schooners, steamers, etc., lost over the last 200 years are not
unique, were generally built to consistent standards, and are well
documented. These ships are of interest to us as discoverers, explorers and
divers, and we can often add footnotes to local history by our
examination of the site. The shipwrecks are significant to me,
but this is not "earth shattering" stuff we are dealing with. WHAT WE
ARE DEALING WITH THAT IS "EARTH SHATTERING" IS OUR FREEDOM, AND THAT IS
THE MOST IMPORTANT.
One of a kind events, documents, situations, etc., are historically
significant when they happen and have significant impact-Nixon's
resignation, the Kennedy assassination, Vietnam, etc. And I am sure you
can reference significant events in Canadian history.
-Your words: "And then, there was the criticism of all the people there who
"pursue their pet projects", such as Joyce Hayward, etc."
Gary was not referencing people that fund activities out of their own
pocket or obtain some funding while spending many more dollars and time on
their own to be involved in a project. Gary has been friends with Ms.
Hayward for several years. I do know where Gary is coming
from, and we will get to that shortly.
You ask what has Mr. Kozak done for Great Lakes history? Mr. Kozak and other
shipwreck hunters have provided 75+% of the shipwrecks that Canadian and US
divers enjoy today. And in Gary's case, he has provided locations without
ever having made a dive on the site. I also expect that most divers are
primarily interested in enjoying the "swim back into time", and that doesn't
make Great Lakes history any less significant because they elect this as
their "personal experience".
NOW, THE LEGISLATIVE MATTER
Some significant points:
1) Notice that this was moving through as PMB #13 without a discussion with
the people effected---YOU, THE DIVER. What is the control freak's agenda
when you, the diver, apparently are of so little intelligence that you should
be treated as cattle to be rounded up and told which pasture graze in?
2) The "knowledge (aka-mind control) police" will get you if you fail to tell
them where a possible historical site is located. Penalty is 1 year of
incarceration and a $50,000 fine. If you are a charter operator (incorp),
the fine can be up to $250,000 while losing his/her boat. This looks like
NAZI Germany to me. At least the bill didn't include the death penalty.
3) If you move silt, by accident or otherwise, this is destruction of a
"heritage site". Something is horrible out of focus here.
4) According to Toby Barrett's office, "Any sites that have significant
artifacts remaining and all new sites would be closed".
5) The regulations that will apply to this Bill are currently being written
and have not been available for review. In other words, this Bill will be
passed and rules made public after it becomes law! And guess who gets to
make the "rules of the law".....the control freaks.
Summary Observation
As the lawyer for Gary Gentile said (paraphrased), "It takes away all basic
human rights and you are permitted to do only what the "king" allows you to
do.
Anyone who would get an MPP to propose this kind of legislation is,
basically, evil and cannot be trusted. He or she, and others behind this
legislation, also qualify as a control freaks and a fanatics.
THE ULTIMATE POWER GRAB
I have a name for these people, it is "power mongers". In the archeological
community, there is a strong need to prevent the erosion of their power.
Because of the rapid flow of historical information being made available by
discovers and explorers, these people are becoming less relevant.
If they are to regain relevance, they must stop the people that discover,
explore and bring knowledge to the community at large. However, it will be
OK if they can anoint those that will be deemed "worthy" of the opportunity
to participate. Obviously, those feeding at the "public trough" cannot do
for "free" what is being done by the typical shipwreck hunter and diver
(explorer) for no cost.
There must budgets, funding and more of your tax dollars to pay for the
significant project----whatever project he/she deems as important.
Shipwreck hunting cannot be stopped.....commercial fishermen, sport
fishermen, and shipwreck hunters will continue to find shipwrecks. Those
found by shipwreck hunters and sport fisherman that are friends with the
shipwreck hunter will be kept quiet. And for good reason, it is the pleasure
of discovery, exploration and solving another Great Lakes mystery that drives
the wreckhunter. Sharing the thrill of discovery and documenting, while
important, is secondary.
Does some power hungary bureaucrat really think they can control wreckhunters
and divers....I think not! But the wreckhunter and diver can sure as hell
control what the power hungary bureaucrat knows.
It is useful to remember that 75+% of the shipwrecks that we dive on were
found by the wreckhunters.