Posted by Robert Underhill on November 22, 19101 at 08:06:43:
In Reply to: Re: Ironsides posted by Tim on November 21, 19101 at 18:10:35:
: : : : Well, getting back to the topic, It certainly makes sense to hear of your opinions regarding Grand River current, warm water, polution, etc. These certainly could have had an impact. I also am aware of just how deep the ice can go -- although it's been a few decades since we had ice that bad and all this damage has occurred within the past 12 years.
: : : : The wreck has been fragile for some time and we have noticed major changes when we dive right after a major storm. SO it must be surges, current, etc.
: : : : As someone (above) said...dive it while you can.
: : : : As for removing artifacts -- I would no more do so than would I steal an exhibit from a land-based museum. I think the bulk of the diving community has progressed from its Neanderthal roots in this regard -- at least I hope we're getting there.
: : : : Think of all the great shipwrecks that were turned into coffee-tables back in the 1950s and 60s.
: : : : Craig
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: : : Think of all that shipwreck wood most of which was loose scattered about the wreck site that would now be covered with sand or zebra musssels!!!! As for the old BS about divers dismantling ship wrecks it is another fantasy when mother nature was the real culprit, but for the ignorant, it was easier to blame divers.If any of the finger pointers ever tried to pry loose an attached timber from a wreck they would find out just how exteremley hard and time consuming such an effort is.When it was much easier to pickup the scatterd pieces that will eventually be lost forever and turn them into a work of art be it a coffee table or similar item.I am still waiting to hear where the big supermarket is for shipwreck artifacts and what was sold and to whom for what price etc. Tim
: : That wreck was dove in the 60's and 70's by a lot of divers who shall we say were not ignorant in the use of lift bags, lift drums, hacksaws, and the extreamly usefull pipe wrench. My diving instructor at Godwin High in the mid sixties clamed to have found a $20.00 gold piece on the deck. The man who found it(Gene Turner)pulled a steamer trunk out of the back section filled with costumes and wigs. A theater company was traveling on board at the time of sinking.
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: Well the way I see it's a good thing that they got what they did back in the sixty's before it was buried forever in the collapsed wreckage, never to be seen again. At least someone sees the items and I am sure they would be glad to show there items to anyone interested. I think I did see some of the recovered items in the Millwaukee public library (marine Room) Tim
Like a lot of things, I think the truth lies some place between the two extremes. Most of the old divers stopped "taking things" years ago. And while it would be a real crime to see the wheel of the Mary Alice B. disappear, it's hard for me, after years of diving the Ironsides by the brail system, to see the harm done by early "collectors". The irony that zebras are undoing great lakes wreck diving far better than any pipe wrench or stick of dynamite used by the early "Neanderthals" has not been lost on the boys who lived through the transformation to our new enlightened sport.